Women, or more specifically American women, seem to draw out contempt in men. After some reading and independent research, I can understand why. In a nutshell, I have seen that women have not bee as opressed as they want men to believe. FIne. Point taken and agreed here.

But, on the other hand here, what happened to American men? Feminism cannot be the whole answer, because I have known men who have treated women with great respect long after the feminist movement. Why would you slam the door in anyone's face? I have been burnt by men but I will hold the door for one. Men have accomplished and done so much. But this contempt for the other gender does not make sense. Why is marriage viewed always as a woman raping your wallet? When my father was alive, he would always give my mom the pay and tell her to get what we needed. I can't conceive of him calling her a whore or a cunt --not just him, but any of the men I interact with in day to day life. Women are viewed as just as much disposable to men as men are to women. I gotta ask the choir here, b/c it seems like a choir problem also. Maybe America as a nation has just been shot to pieces.

Once, before feminist power became almost absolute, young boys were taught to resect the opposite sex, treat them with tenderness since females were the "weaker sex". Now, with a great deal of "equality" being preached boys see girls as identical to them, at least in the way of treatment and approach. If women wish to own identical rights as a man don't be shocked when treatment is also equal. Sure exceptions to every rule will always exist regardless of the subject discussed. But in general the problem lies at an ideology backed by government power.

It isn't so much much marraige itself that is the wallet breaker, and even life destroyer, but by risking marraige one also risks divorce. The latter is the real breaker yet cannot exist without marraige. With over 70% of divorces being initiated by the female and the government employees doing everything in their power to rape the man in court it shouldn't be any surprise they contempt marraige, and thus divorce, can hold within the male mind.

The contempt from my standpoint, as directed toward females thmeselves, is due to their behavior. However the real animosity stims toward feminism, the ideology, and an overly-intrusive government into the masses' lives.

Kelly, marriage is viewed as a women raping our wallets because that's exactly what it is. Did you happen to see my post a while back about that NFL player being listed as a deadbeat dad for failing to pay $5000 a month in child support? That's nonsense. No one, not even a child, needs $5000 a month to live. I'm a fully grown adult and I don't spend that much on myself. And I can't speak for other men but women are not just as disposable to me. I live in a bigger sexual desert then Niceguy did when he was still here. He got a few, but I have never had one. I can't even get a girl to date me because I can't find one that isn't either taken or a feminist man-hater. Here are more reasons for our contempt for women.

1. They cry oppression when they don't get their way.

2. They make false sex crime accusations against men if a man just looks at them the wrong way

3. They file for divorce in 80% of all divorce cases in this country and usually they have no real reason for it. You know, as in no-fault.

I have only been married for 15 years, but I can see a real deterioration in the attitudes between the sexes since I was single.

In 1970, the old constitution was in place, feminism was just snarling in its cradle, and you could find good women everywhere if you avoided the so-called counterculture.

In 1985, women were getting difficult; they were prima-donna-ish, but they were still worth pursuing. If they were halfway attractive, they caught a Stevie Nicks-diva complex and made you jump through a bunch of hoops, but if you were skillful, you could still navigate it.

In 2004, the young women seem to all have packed on about 20 pounds, and they all look like they've been beaten hard with an angry stick. Even the attractive ones seem to want to go out of the way to make themselves look as sociopathic as possible.

They really don't have anything to offer a serious young man, if they had any interest in serious young men. They seem to be like filings to a magnet, though, for petty criminals, future inmates, drug abusers, and feral wild-boys.

Despite this, they all have major princess issues and act like its a third degree felony for them to speak civilly to a young man.

And the women my age - good God - maybe GDaddy and ZP can back me up here, the ones who were OK back in 1972 have shot through two or three good men and a half dozen bad ones, and they think that the pinnacle of feminine desirability is to be as demanding, as histrionic, as psychotic, and as self-obsessed as their daughters.

The Bhagavad Gita said it well - to destroy a society, all that is necessary is to allow the women to get out of control. That's when the race to the bottom begins.

This sort of thing, for starters.

Kelly, go back and read my essay "Hate Bounces" that Biomech posted. Think of all the hatred that women have been pouring on men for the past 35+ years as an emotional form of DDT - it doesn't break down, it doesn't go away, it just accumulates until it builds up to really toxic levels.

Or read the fine article by Carey Roberts Women lose when feminists bash

It is as surreal as a bad acid trip that women - the so-called "relationship experts" - cannot for the life of them seem to figure out that a steady diet of hostility, contempt, and exploitation will eventually turn men against them.

Another metaphor I use is that it is like a big lake with millions of women on one side dumping millions of tons of raw emotional sewage in one side, and the clueless dolts on the other side can't seem to figure out why the emotional "water" they are getting from men is beginning to taste pretty bitter.

Yeah, I'll back you up on that one, MCB. Being a part of the counterculture, I got exposed to radical feminism early. I have a brother 10 years older than I am, and by the time I graduated from HS his wife was already using his kids to jerk him around, so I wasn't all that hot on marriage from the get-go. After encountering radical feminism with all its hatred, distortions, and anger in my freshman year of college, I copped an attitude and basically made the decision that I was going to force the fish to live without this bicycle. I met many women over the years who would have loved to be supported to stay at home, but my brother's wife was so useless and helpless and suffered from a perpetual broken wing, that I really did react to marriage like a jail sentance - "none for me, thanks."

But, as I have said before, I think that men and women had a chance of sorting things out but for the poisonous influence of Susan Faludi and Naomi Wolf. Right after their books came out was when things turned really ugly. The 90s were a nightmare. There was a period of several years when every day I got several man-bashing supposedly "funny" emails that were making the rounds - "what do you call a man with half a brain? gifted."

What makes me have no hope at all for the future is the way that little girls and boys are being programmed to hate each other now. Young women when they reach your age, Kelly, will pay a terrible price for their stupid bitches of mothers buying them "boys are stupid, be violent toward them" T-shirts, jammies, and the like. Boys today are forming the opinion of girls which will be with them the rest of their lives, and that opinion is largely that girls are violent, hateful, and vicious.

Twenty years from now, young women like you will look back on today and think of it as "the good old days."

That's what I'm thinking. It seems that, even if your vote counted, the majority doesn't know what's good for them anymore. The media and shitty leaders don't help either. The problem with our men and women is just a big side-effect.

add to all of the above that if you DO show respect for women, simply the basic respect, or chivalry, that our fathers taught us (The generations of men 30 and older in general, and a VERY FEW younger men), it get's spit back in our face. Holding a door becomes an insult, so we stop doing it. Then we get castigated for NOT doing what got us castigated last time. It's a vicious circle with no possible resolution. That is the world that big government and feminism support. Orwell saw it coming, and most of us dismissed him as a crackpot.

I still feel the reflexive chivalry, but it's VERY HARD to justify it in the face of no return. Women used to have their version of chivalry as well. When it was a two way street, EVERY DECENT PERSON, regardless of sex, got a good deal. When it became one-sided, every decent person, regardless of sex, got the shaft. And our alleged leaders view this as progress!!!!!

I personally think you are a good person. But the fact is this: The ball is in the woman's court at this point. We bent over backwards beyond the breaking point to accomodate the things women claimed to want. MOST men of my generation thought that equality, in the legal sense at least, was a good idea and embraced it enthusiastically. It bit us. Hard. Like a rabid badger.

Now men are in a state of shock, if they are my age, or just don't care if they are younger because they've known nothing else. If the fembots will back the hell off and ALLOW men and women to find a middle ground, they will. The desire of both sexes for the other is much deeper than just sexual, but has been perverted to ONLY include the base desires. And this debasement has been ENFORCED to such a level that it's pandemic. There is no turning back, but we can definitely IMPROVE. But it will require a revolution. Hopefully a revolution of the mind, but probably a revolution in the true sense.

You know the bottom line is that at the end of a long day dealing with Alpha personalities, a man doesn't want to grin and bear it like he did the better part of the morning and afternoon. He wants sit in his couch, eat his TV Dinner and head off to the calm place in his domicile.

Oh for fucks sake!! How many different ways and times do you have to ask this question?? You are either stupid, stubborn, or both.

QUIT POINTING THE GODDAMN FINGER AT US!

QUIT ASKING US THESE QUESTIONS!!

Biomech hit it right. And I will repeat him, and myself AGAIN for the comprehensively impaired, YOU.

The ball is in the women's court.

GO TALK TO YOUR SISTAS.

Got it? And don't start ANOTHER fucking thread where you ask us the same question with yet ANOTHER variance.

WE AIN'T CHANGIN'. GO CHANGE YOUR SISTAS.

What part of this don't you understand?